Progressive rock drummer and composer Kevin Dodson has been a key figure in The Madrigal Project, a collective that blends classic prog influences with modern sonic elements. With the upcoming release of their new album, 11th Hour, set for October 11th, Dodson revisits the genre that has been a part of his musical journey since the late 70s. In this interview, Kevin shares the origins of The Madrigal Project, the creative process behind 11th Hour, and his experience collaborating with renowned musicians like Adam Holzman, Oliver Wakeman, and Billy Sherwood.
Kevin, can you tell us how The Madrigal Project came to be and what inspired you to revisit the progressive rock genre after your work with Madrigal?
The history of The Madrigal Project actually goes way back to the beginnings of my career and my first original prog group, Madrigal (formed in 1977). As such, it is impossible to recap the entire story in one simple answer. However, The Madrigal Project has been around for approximately 8 years . The first Madrigal band released 2 albums “Waiting …” 1988 and “On My Hands” 1996. We signed a terrible distribution deal and lost control of the songs on these first 2 records. This unfortunate detail matched with the fact that there are several bands, products, corporations, etc. all with the name Madrigal, compelled us to make a clean break from the past, while still hopefully retaining some of our history. We opted for The Madrigal Project as this truly reflects the nature of this collective. We are not actually a “Band” but rather a group of composers, songwriters and producers who have banded together as purveyors of progressive music. I have been infatuated and taken by progressive music since the age of 14 so, there was no “revisiting” the genera! I never left!
What was the creative process like for 11th Hour? Did it differ from your previous albums with Madrigal like Waiting and On My Hands?
All of the songs and lyrics for 11th Hour originated with me, whereas in the first incarnation, there was collaborative writing, though the bulk of the material and all of the lyrics on the first two records are mine. I collaborated with Oliver on “Breaking August” and “Sisters” and Adam gave me invaluable advice throughout the recording and had a huge part in the arrangement of “Sumpin’ Ovit.”
I should point out that I worked closely with John Van Houdt on this record and he had his hand in writing some of the sections on 11th Hour and created immensely captivating and melodic bass lines for several of the songs. As far as the origins of the songs goes, some of the material got its start way back in the first Madrigal days, recorded on a Fostex 8 track as demos and slipped into a drawer, waiting to be dusted off and revamped for this record! I have always written songs, even when there was no band or collaborators. It’s like breathing to me ….I have to write!!
Some of the material was written for the record recently. We were originally going to release a single vinyl record but one day realized we had too much material! It wouldn’t fit on a vinyl record! So rather than leave anything off the table,I went to work putting together some new songs to fill out the rest of the time requirements for a double album. “Maude Frantic, A Question of Wait and Matter, Breaking August and Sumpin’ Ovit” for instance.
The writing differed from the first two albums as well in that, I normally write on an acoustic guitar or piano. The new songs were all written on the keyboards. My process for song writing is one part inspiration, one part research and 2 parts hard work!
You’ve assembled an incredible lineup of guest musicians on this album. How did you come to work with artists like Adam Holzman, Oliver Wakeman, and Billy Sherwood?
Harry Fix (who is a member of TMP) is a very close friend of mine. Over the years, he had watched me struggle and suffer to reach my goals of writing, recording and touring with a true prog rock band. (Of which THAT is a very long story!) Harry is an accomplished Jazz pianist and had gone to college with Adam. They had become great friends and, in fact, Harry used to help Adam with his gear at gigs during their college days! So there is a (too long) story here as to how the situation transpired but the short story is, Harry took me to the Steven Wilson concert in Seattle and introduced me to Adam who, at that meeting, agreed to play on a few of the tracks. Of course, I was just over the moon! As I say, the story is very long but to be brief, John and I knew we needed a great guitar player to “rise to the occasion”. This turned out to be Michael Lewis who had just recently done a project called ‘Inventioning” with Jon Anderson (Yes) and Jean Luc Ponty (Frank Zappa)!
Michael was just so open, helpful and gracious and, being somewhat in the Yes Camp, introduced me to Oliver and Billy who both liked the material and agreed to play on the record! This was probably one of the most amazing times of my life as this was truly a dream. To get to work with this calibre of musicians is just, well… for me, breath taking! A true honor! As time went by all of these gentleman were extremely supportive and gave more of themselves than they really had to. Advice, directives and encouragement were par for the project and I am SO appreciative, grateful and blessed to have had them on this album!
What specific roles did each of the guest musicians play in shaping the sound of 11th Hour?
As I’ve said, they all had a creative hand in shaping the songs. Now these are busy people and they are all living in different parts of the world. It was impossible for me to be in New York, London, LA, etc. and therefore impossible for me to produce “hands on in the room.” Instead, we would discuss the songs and I might mention a player or song as a reference and I would give minimal directives as to what I was looking for on the track. A few times we would have a Zoom session to discuss details and make alterations, but for the most part, that’s it! Once they had a concept and directives, I would just pretty much give them cart blanche and off they went! On paper you might say ‘this can’t work”! “How can you possibly produce them and get what you are looking for if you can’t even be in the same room to act in a producer’s capacity??”
Well this is one of the most uncanny aspects of their involvement and the magic that happened often with this record… They would send me tracks and they would almost always be spot on! Gold! “Just add water, makes its own gravy!” Sure, there were a few times where adjustments might be made, but most of the time they just kicked it through the goal posts! Amazing when you think about it…
The album’s sound blends classic progressive rock influences with modern elements. How did you balance these two aspects in the writing andproduction process?
I have a background in audio production for film and television. In that world, you have to have a very wide and diverse grasp of different styles, musical approaches, and production techniques. You must be well versed in multiple genres. We did what is called “library production music’. which is different cuts of music in different styles that is “drop and play”. In other words, various cuts used by the editors at the network level and post production trailer music facilities.
So one day, you may be asked to produce an “percussive action”piece and the next a dub step track! Having these tools in my “tool belt” made the process of combining “old and new”approaches something that was very natural to me.
The balancing was purely instinctual! I hope I’ve succeeded!
You mentioned that 11th Hour draws inspiration from bands like Gentle Giant, Yes, and Genesis. How did these influences shape your songwriting andarrangements on the album?
As a lyricist, I place a good deal of emphasis on the words. They mean a lot to me and in fact this is one of the aspects of progressive music that always attracted me. When you can step out of the bonds of “boy meets girl, puts her in a fast car, gives her some ecstasy, has sex and then falls in love”, a whole world of possibilities present themselves! You can tackle intricate and deep personal experiences and high concept subject matter and give them an outlet. It’s therapeutic actually! For me anyway! I have great admiration for people like Peter Gabriel, Ian Anderson and, probably most influential to
me, Peter Hammill. It seems to me that Peter could write about a cigarette burning in an ashtray and make it compelling and fascinating! (Hey… New song coming on??! [laughs]!)
Musically, I find the guys who are extremely unorthodox, clever and unique in their approach to be my touchstone. A band like Gentle Giant, who wrote from an almost medieval, baroque meets rock, jazz and even folk music, to be the most inspirational to me. There are lots of prog bands who have a sort of standard approach, not that that’s bad, or that I don’t love them, it’s just a bit more, dare I say, predictable(?).
So taking these two factors into account, I am always attempting to write truly “progressive” music (not that I’ve fully succeeded, mind you!). I want to see the path ahead as, when it says turn right, I’ll turn left! It doesn’t always succeed but I believe I’ve carved out a bit of my own sound and approach. Genesis were masters of ‘atmospheres”. That is another aspect I am always striving for.
As someone who is both a multi-instrumentalist and a producer, how do you approach balancing thetechnical and creative aspects of making music?
For me, these two aspects live side by side with neither taking president more importance over the other. I always have one eye on the technical while being creative and I am always striving to be creative with the technical side of things.
The Madrigal Project has a very dynamic and cinematic sound. Can you tell us how the album’s production was approached, especially in terms ofcreating such a layered and expansive sound?
Well, as I’ve pointed out, having a background in audio production for film and television serves me pretty well on all these fronts. As it turns out, John Van Houdt has the same background! So we clicked right away and it was pretty clear that our tastes and instincts were very similar! For me, music should tell a story, wether instrumental or lyrical. To bring out the drama and scope of a peice, you might rely a bit more on orchestration. On the other hand, if your attempting to set up an action scenario, you might use more percussion and rock guitars, but there are no hard and fast rules here…in fact, breaking the rules is my specialty!! (or so I’m told!). But also, given this, every track is a different journey and you have to be open … sometimes the music will take you where it wants to go… other times you work for 6 months on the chorus chord sequence…you never know until the trip takes off! So I approach every track as an opportunity to reinvent myself!
The artwork for 11th Hour by Hajo Müller is striking. How did the collaboration with him come about, and how do you feel his visual work complements the album’s themes?
I was introduced to Hajo by Adam. Hajo does the covers for Steven Wilson, Porcupine Tree and many, many others. His approach was instinctive, highly original, and intuitive. He truly wants to “get inside” the music. He waits until the muse arrives and does his homework. He had me tell him what the overall concept of the album was and then had me go and take pictures of my childhood home (s), schools and stomping grounds so he could get a feel for my personal experience!! THAT’s commitment!
The album is not a concept album in the truest sense but it is an autobiographical one.The songs are a reflection of my life. The trials, tribulations and accomplishments that brought me to this place to where I could present this work to the world. The title,11th Hour denotes the fact that, let’s face it, Im in the 11th hour of my career, the 11th hour of my life and, quite possibly, the 11th hour of human civilization as we know it. So time is something central to the albums construct.I won’t get into too much detail here as I don’t want listeners to think of my interpretation but rather I want them to have their own interpretation …to put it in the context of their own lives. This is what the best progressive music has done for me. I would love my listeners to have the same experience I’ve had when experiencing special music for the first time!. Hajo knew this. And he dug down deep and made sure he was reflecting the autobiographical nature of the work while keeping the emotional and spiritual side as an equal.. I had a concept, but he took it to a whole different level! I am so thankful to have his work on my cover. I am truly blessed. Hajo and I have become good friends and I can tell you, in the world of art, he is truly one of a kind and hisown man! I can’t thank him enough!
You’ve been involved in every aspect of this album, from songwriting to production. How important is creative control to you, and how does that influenceyour work with other musicians?
Like every artist, I am certainly at the helm of my own work, directing the coarse, and on my songs, I am the final word, I guess. But the thing that has always drawn me to work with others and to collaborate are the fantastic and magical things that just happen when you open up to others. The cool surprises that come when somebody falls into a part and it takes the song in an entirely unexpected direction! This is exciting to me! I truly believe you get the best out of people by allowing them to have “skin in the game!” I am always open to any contributions and listen to every suggestion. It is a fact that when my songs become our songs, something special happens! There is a certain unity and spiritual aspect that drives everyone to do their best and to enjoy the journey. After all, this is inspiring work. It NEVER should be unpleasant… Well… As much as possible. Once in a while you will have a “Johnny Rain Cloud” in your midst and this can be distracting. But I will always try to bring everyone into the fold creatively!
The progressive rock scene has evolved significantly since your early days with Madrigal. How do you see your work with The Madrigal Project fitting intotoday’s prog landscape?
I don’t know how or even if it will “fit” into the current scene. And I’m not even sure that should be a concern. It’s music and therefore subject to opinions. We all know about those! [laughs]
If I’ve done my job right, they will come to the music and it will have an effect. That is certainly what I hope for. You know, I was on the Cruise to the Edge 2022 and by about the 4th day I began to get nervous because I realized that my stuff didn’t sound very much like anything else I was hearing on the boat! And I actually thought that could be a bad thing! But most have told me that it is a very good thing, so… We will see!
What were some of the lyrical themes or stories youwanted to explore on 11th Hour?
Again, I don’t really want to give away too much here but I can say that the song “Sisters” (instrumental) is about my daughters, Brittney and Brianna. “A Question of Wait and Matter” was partially influenced by my daughter, Brittney. She is a research scientist and engineer at the CENPA lab on the University of Washington campus. She works with a particle accelerator/collider!
I can say that, in the song “A Question of Wait and Matter”, I toy around with the idea of science, spirituality and superstition, and the inner mingling between them… You can interpit from there! The lyrical themes are things like our frantic lives and the stress of modern life, science, art and “how do we get there”, The criminal justice system, drug addiction, religion, the spirit and the spiritual, isolation and loneliness, etc. Thats a pretty “bare bones” list but you can see that there are definitely specific themes and they relate to my life in general as far as this record goes.
Your drumming and percussion play a central role in The Madrigal Project. How did you approach the rhythmic elements on this record compared to yourearlier work?
Like I said about trying to take a somewhat unorthodox approach to my songwriting, the same is true with my drumming. The plain truth is that there are plenty of technicians out there that can play “Flight of the Bumble Bee” on their kick drums while twirling both sticks with their nose. Very impressive! I think that’s great! I just simply can’t do that. It’s not for me. I try to make what I play highly unique and unorthodox. A good example would be Bill Bruford’s snare placements. Every drummer knows that Bill’s snare placement can be very odd and unusual. It’s part of what makes his playing so unique, exciting and unpredictable. Well, that’s sort of the approach I take. Turning the beat around on itself, different approaches to metric modulation and the importance of what I leave out as well as where my hands land. I try and keep equal parts groove and unpredictability in my playing.
Can you tell us about the recording process for 11th Hour at Dodsongs Productions and Soundlogic Audio? How did working closely with John Van Houdtinfluence the final sound?
I cannot overstate the importance and value of having John by my side with the production of this album. He is extremely knowledgeable and has huge amounts of patience (guess why? [laughs]). Having another set of ears in the studio is very important. But when those ears are highly perceptive and experienced, there is no replacing that. John is a highly skilled engineer / producer / songwriter so he has the sensibilities that were so vital to the making of the record, both during the creative stage and, equally important, during the mixing and mastering. John is also a fantastic musician/multi-instrumentalist, bass player and he played some amazing parts on the album. He plays bass very melodically and creatively! He also played several “extra” guitar parts and sang backups with me. He is a well rounded musician and a GREAT GUY! You couldn’t ask for a better “partner in crime!”
You’ve worked with a wide range of musicians across different genres. How has your experience as a producer and session musician shaped your approach to creating 11th Hour?
Probably mostly in the diversity of styles musically and in the techniques used production wise. Every song is different and can present unique challenges. Thats when your experience at “rolling with it” and improvising on the spot can come in handy. I can say that this album is highly personal to me and means so much that my approach was to give it the best I have to offer. So I approached this project with the idea of producing the “album of my life”. Because that is what it represents.
The music on 11th Hour is said to offer a unique listening experience. How do you ensure your music connects with both long-time progressive rock fansand new listeners?
There is nothing new under the sun and one can’t be sure of anything. I don’t take into account those kinds of things really. To me, it would be like trying to create something you THINK people might want to hear or like, which isn’t free creativity but rather is contrived. This music came from the deepest depths of my soul and is uncompromisingly honest. There is nothing contrived here.
You’ve mentioned influences like Peter Gabriel and King Crimson. How do you keep the music fresh whilestaying true to these classic progressive rock roots?
I just go to that most honest and inspired space. A space I think every writer knows what I’m talking about. In that “space” I come to terms with the real and the most important. Then I just draw my mojo from that and start writing. I strive to get to the space, but I don’t always succeed. But I love it so much I keep writing. You never know when the music will whisper its intentions to you! Again, I don’t necessarily think about how what Im doing might effect this person or that group. It’s just musical statements that I find interesting or true and I am giving it to you unfiltered. What ya see is what ya get!
What challenges did you face during the making of 11th Hour, either creatively or logistically, and how did you overcome them?
Wow! Challenges? Too many to list! I had moments of “no space” or what might be termed “writer’s block”. But if I’m not feeling it, I walk away. The muse will find me another day! The album took 7 years to complete. This was due to, as I say, too many factors to lay out here, but every musician knows the struggles in our work. The difference might be that prog, being the bastard stepchild of rock n’ roll, creates an even harder track to hone.
How do you see The Madrigal Project evolving in the future? Do you have plans for live performances orfuture collaborations?
We will continue to write, record and bring on special guests, but we are acutely aware of the fact that, at some point, people are going to want to be able to see it live. As a matter of fact, there is definitely talk of forming a group capable of performing material from all three albums live. There are some challenges to solve but, as evidenced by the record, we can overcome. It will probably take a bit of time though, but I’m hoping we can put it together quick enough to be out there sometime in 2025. As for the record, we hope to do well enough with sales to pay for the next album (which I am writing songs for now!).
Finally, what do you hope listeners will take away from 11th Hour and from your journey with The Madrigal Project?
I have always remembered how it felt, buying a new record of something new I had never heard. Getting home and isolating for the next hour absorbing the music… The atmosphere. Pouring over the cover and reading the lyrics. The excitement of what could be around the next corner! But most importantly, that feeling of magic and wonder that it gave me when I knew I had discovered something special.
I hope this record can do that.
The Madrigal Project’s 11th Hour is out on October 11th; pre-order here. Follow the band on Facebook and Instagram for future updates.
