Mathieu Torres, the innovative French guitarist and visionary behind M’Z, returns with his thought-provoking fourth album, Émancipés du vide?, showcased on the Progotronics XLVI compilation. Known for his eclectic mix of Canterbury rock, drum and bass, jazz, and more, Mathieu has carved a musical identity that defies categorization, blending genres to challenge societal norms and question human emotional complexities. In this interview, Mathieu dives into his creative journey, exploring the album’s exploration of existential themes, his views on artistic freedom, and the inspiration behind his compelling fusion of styles. As he discusses the influences that shape his sound, from Frank Zappa to Aphex Twin, Mathieu shares insights into the musical and philosophical underpinnings of Émancipés du vide?.
M’Z draws on a range of genres from Canterbury to drum and bass. How did you develop such an eclectic musical identity, and what inspires you to blend these diverse sounds?
Like many people of my generation and it seems to be even more so for the younger generations, I have the feeling that there is a general desire to mix genres and to blow up aesthetics that from my point of view have been much maintained and mythologized by the music industry. Then I have a natural attraction to so-called progressive music and it seems to me that it is in its first essence to mix several styles and to come out with a singular sound. I like music or music to be clearer and as I have no producers or artistic director to “guide” me towards the real laws of the market I try not to fit into any standard easier to store in stores and then I can try to honor all the music that touches me and there is a vast field including Zappa, Alfa Mist, Zorn, Mr. Bungle, Magma, Gong, Pantera, Steve Coleman, Nirvana, Plaid, Aphex Twin, Squarepusher, Tigran Hamasyan, Jeff Beck, Pat Metheny, Ron Thal… and really many others that it would be too long to mention. I am like every musical artist I think, a random playlist of tastes that have shaped me and which remain in constant evolution.
Your fourth album, Émancipés du vide?, addresses human emotional struggles and our relationship with societal norms. What led you to explore these themes on this album?
For this album I had not presupposed anything at the beginning as a theme, (this is not always the case, sometimes it is the concept that guides me), it is as the compositions and the drawing that seemed to take shape in front of me that it appeared to me as an album that wanted to talk about pathos. When I listened again to the pieces that came out, after having immersed myself in them in the pre-mix phase, the connecting point seemed to be this and I did not try to twist what was visibly, to make it a concept album more guided by the intellect, I found that relevant.
The album touches on ideas of “conformism” and “hollow positivism.” Could you elaborate on how these concepts influence your lyrics and music?
It seems to me that fighting against conformism is in the very mission of the work of any artist who wants to take a little air and distance from the entertainment industry, often owned by multi-billionaires who would prefer that everyone tends towards a reactionary conformism. Fortunately there remains the profession of artist (among others, I do not disqualify the union workers, the angry ones who take to the streets, the sociologists, the independent journalists, the whistleblowers, the young and old mobilized on climate issues, the people who speak out to advance the rights of everyone whatever their sexuality, their gender… And so many others.). That said, the primary role of the artist is to fight against conformism, at the very least to make people think about this limit that is the natural attraction in sapiens for conformism and to question this habit that leads to boredom, sadness and a morbid desire for security to protect themselves from anyone else who would not accept the codes that conform to this that we think is good, from a place that is much too obstructed to be able to judge it correctly. As for “hollow positivism” it is a more modern notion, in the capitalist religion there are verses of this bible that are dedicated to a form of alienating positivism.
Personal development is one of the excesses of neo-liberal thought. We must want to surround ourselves with benevolence at all costs, feel good at all costs and above all whatever the context we would be the only ones responsible for our happiness, the artisans of our joy… It is monumental bullshit and it is so stupid that we could imagine that no one could be naive enough to fall into such a trap, unfortunately it turns out that far too many people suffer on a more or less violent scale the ravages of such pseudo thought.
Personally, I have no religion, but when I pray something it is the critical mind, the critical mind does not spare itself any negation, does not know how to turn away from misfortune, and above all the context in which we live, even with a HUGE “will” cannot really lead to any happiness, the exhaustion of resources, ultra individualism, ultra authoritarianism, the desire for security, the rise of identity and moralism, the current inability to organize itself into an intelligent and correctly distributed society… All this offers few happy perspectives. These speeches are reminders for capitalist business managers, to recite the lesson of what we would like to believe as a myth, that we are the only ones responsible for our existence and the only ones responsible for our comforts and especially discomforts, unfortunately this speech goes far beyond the framework of the company and it seems vital to me to counter this type of harmful thinking that makes you feel guilty from the moment you feel the slightest critical thought, or sad, or other synonym of degenerate, even though the context does not really allow you to emit many other forms of thoughts without having to completely alienate your mind with all possible artifices, from entertainment to the hardest drugs (including alcohol) these are thoughts that do not at all question the established order and that only allow submission and therefore can only lead to a dead end and certainly not to happiness.
You reflect on humanity’s “attraction toward nothingness.” How does this concept shape the album’s atmosphere and compositions?
There is still a question mark, is it towards nothingness? I think it is above all questioning, not an album that thinks it holds a truth. Personally it seems to me just as vital to question my psyche as it is useless and it is this oscillation between these two extreme poles that creates moments where thought makes its way into an interesting path. Sometimes we dig, convincing ourselves that we will find a vein of gold there and we realize that it is only hollow and sometimes when we think about it and look more closely, the elements that we have come across there, although not being the initial gold sought, appear to us at other times as having much more value. The quest is never in vain in my opinion. To my ear and with my sensitivity it seems to me that it is this type of reflection that these melodies arouse and it is in these lands that my thoughts are directed when listening to these pieces, but I am wrong at least in a billion multiverses, let’s say that this album could perhaps take one more step that distances us from nothingness.
Many of your influences, like free-rock, noise, and jazz, can be highly experimental. How do you keep your sound cohesive while incorporating such varied elements?
I am very happy that you think it is successful, it is always complicated to propose a singular art that does not skimp on the experimentation necessary for creation. The result depends partly on what I actually do and also partly on the ear of the one who receives it. I have happened to annoy some ears a lot, but it is a source of pride sometimes, although the goal is rather to find ears attentive to my work, I can be happy that some ears too chaste can hate it.
Music is sometimes a dance, sometimes a fight with silence. There are many people who seek infinite peace, an eternal aum, for me it rhymes with boredom and it is close to a search for brain death. I like tumult and especially I like this music (Zorn, Fred Frith, Derek Bailey, Mr Bungle (Discovolante), Fantomas, Pink Floyd (with Syd Barrett and the first part of ’70s), Soft Machine, John Cage, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, and many others). So maybe if in a certain way if it is successful, it is probably because the building is cemented with a true love and a most violent sincerity.
The title Émancipés du vide? suggests a tension between freedom and emptiness. How does the question mark at the end shape the message you’re trying to convey?
This resonates with my answer a little higher up, the whole point lies in my opinion in the questioning, as is often said and in a rather generic way, “the important thing is the path not the point of arrival“. I quite agree with this simple principle. The very idea of nothingness is an abstract concept that could also be questioned. The idea of freedom is also a catch-all concept that is sometimes borrowed while it defines in my opinion a voluntary enslavement, this is particularly the case with all the lapdogs of Bolloré (a French billionaire who owns a media empire).
These pseudo journalists seem convinced that they embody a fight for freedom, they drape themselves in elements of resistance and a whole bunch of values that they only embody in words and in form, while looking at it a little more closely, they are only the puppets of the capitalist system and the defenders of the fascism to come. The album does not claim to offer an answer, it proposes to question us, it actually proposes to make a connection between emptiness and freedom, because there is something in this fight that seems interesting to me, I take the opportunity to slightly take this work hostage to talk about some of my opinions, but if I have done my job well, it is possible that certain people find the reflection interesting as such and can seize it and advance the debate, which at this point also seems fascinating to me.
In a world obsessed with fast solutions and quick gratification, what does M’Z aim to offer listeners looking for something deeper?
Space time to give some air to thought. Indeed, we are in a moment where we are asked to react, quickly, to inform ourselves quickly and this urgency is more than anxiety-provoking. Moreover, it is obvious that we do not really make good decisions in a hurry and often we serve passion more than reason by acting in this way.
If I manage to offer a space of freedom of a little less than 50 minutes, then that will be something. I think that as for going for a walk, there is an immediate effort to be made, to get out of the rapid and algorithmic affect and fully enter this album, but as for walking you will not regret it, already because from the moment these melodies reach your ears, they belong to you and as for walking I hope to offer you beautiful new landscapes and an interesting moment of reflection, on the themes of the album or any other reflections that seem relevant to you
How does this album differ from your previous work? Did you approach the writing or production process differently this time?
I try as best I can not to reproduce the same album forever like a neurosis or like a good industry that I could be, if I let myself go…
For the moment, while for L’autopsie du dogme (The autopsy of dogma), Cool is watching you, or Prisme (prism), the concept was my primary creative engine and I composed the pieces from the concepts that supported these albums. Here I let the music inspire me and tell its own story and it is my sensitivity that created the story and the concept after the fact. Also for the production of the album I tried to get out of the ultra compression and offer something more airy, it was also consistent with the subject. Unlike La civilisation de la graine (the civilization of the seed), my last album before this one, which offered a reflection on the patriarchal organization and an observation of the current state of things, and which was very compressed but which also dealt with a more violent, demanding and frontal subject. Here, I hope to take the questions of this new album from a more poetic angle and produce it in this sense.
With Émancipés du vide? addressing emotional “chasms,” how do you translate those introspective themes into your music?
I feel that the inherent color of these pieces and the bluish and melancholic modes borrowed, bring back to these lands of thought, but I hope just as much that a listener can challenge him by finding joy there. Here it is about my initial intention, so as not to leave the listener without a small booklet to accompany the journey, in my opinion this journey is made up of this more or less precise landscape, that said my vision tries to be non-dogmatic and I sincerely hope that each reading will be able to offer new sensations and perceptions.
As a solo project, do you face specific challenges in crafting such layered and experimental soundscapes? How do you manage the creative process on your own?
As for creation, being solo is not a challenge at all, I have always juggled between playing in a group and composing in my room, I like both, but I have a vital need, reinforced over the years, to compose without constraining myself to a conscious goal, so as for the composition aspect, it is quite natural, it is about like writing a dream when waking up, the waking state slightly modifying the perception to make everything plausible, what the pure psyche can put aside. What is more difficult and which requires my will is everything else, approaching, touring and all the aspects that we also develop to make a collective and because the collective is terribly powerful when it works well. But with time I manage to take the solo aspect less as a constraint that I try to learn to love than as a possibility to bring to life as freely as possible an artistic project that carries this quest within it.
Given your influences from both jazz and punk, how do you approach improvisation or spontaneity in your compositions?
I try to give myself the widest possible space of freedom when creating, on days of grace it may even be that certain creations help me to break down some of the compartmentalizing borders of thought and sometimes I just don’t feel the enclosures that border my thought and I have the mistaken feeling of being totally free. Once the piece is created it is harder (given the format) to inject moments of freedom into it live. So in concert I give myself moments of solo guitar (without instrumentation on tapes) some kind of noise parts. There are also improvised lead guitar parts but always constrained by a defined space time, which does not prevent us from finding moments of grace and sometimes interesting escapes off the track.
How has your perspective on freedom and individuality evolved through your work on M’Z, particularly with this latest album?
Just on the subject of freedom, one can spend a lifetime discussing it without ever drying up the subject. All the back and forth on the subject are relevant, whatever direction one takes in thinking to decipher this notion.
I think that questioning freedom and trying to offer myself ever-greater spaces for it will remain a permanent desire in me, but as in many other individuals I think, this desire seems quite universal to me. What is interesting is that the more we question our field of freedom, the more we realize that our enslavement is great (well, let’s forget this period of restriction of freedoms which effectively and physically reduces this space). In any case, it is very difficult to define the horizon.
As for the question of individuality, it is also a rather obsessive notion. I come from a left-wing background in which individualism looks bad and I think it’s because it is confused with the isolated individual, like a lonely atom in permanent competition to live and that neo-liberalism promotes but which quickly becomes a dull and terribly sad prison, nothing emancipating in this kind of individualism. That said, without losing sight of an ideal of pooling, mutual aid and collectivization, we would gain from having strong individualities, if individuals educated in their singularities finally saw the light of day we would make much better collectives and we would be much more inclined to open spaces of common freedoms, but we need a little ideal 😉
For listeners who may be new to M’Z, which track on Émancipés du vide? would you recommend as an entry point, and why?
In equal parts I would say either “La grâce de la solitude ou l’anxiété sociale” (The grace of solitude or social anxiety), or “Le naïf adulte” (The naïve adult). And for essentially the same reasons–yes it is not for nothing that they are respectively at the opening and closing of the album. These are long pieces that approach several aesthetics and which therefore have in their essence a fairly wide range of what I propose with M’Z, they are still singular but by giving several themes and by multiplying the various tracks represent the M’Z universe well I think… I hope!
The album’s themes seem both timely and timeless. How do you view the role of music in addressing or processing societal issues?
It may be that there is an inevitability that Art is only a valve, a diversion that serves the empire more than it will ever make it tremble, but I remain an idealist and I think that the role of art is to advance society, thought, and to open the heart…
It is especially likely that without joint action with other forms of struggle all this is relatively vain. So let’s see what the meetings will propose, how to continue to create a network and how to make beauty a line of sight that replaces productivism, that listening takes precedence over dogmatic rigor. That collectivism rubs shoulders with competition in what it can sometimes have of noble when it is not a brainless ideal.
Music is a maternal language, it is one of the favorite voices of emotion, it allows me not to feel alone for too long, to realize that the human is sometimes a united body, it is a vector of social bond, of pagan celebration, and of joy, of laughter, of the most useful tools on the path of emancipation, of the emergence of individuals and of construction of alternative models to the very very sad empires.
Do you have any particular goals or messages you hope listeners take away from Émancipés du vide?, especially regarding self-discovery or personal freedom?
First of all, I sincerely hope that this album can help to support people in emotional distress and that listening to it can alleviate this kind of wound a little. That it can offer a little relief from the grip of sadness and the multiplication of emptiness that empires sell us with the help of algorithms, stimulating our apathy and then our inaction.
But that would not be enough, the role of a bandage is good but above all I hope that this album can live up to the ambition of the last piece, contribute to finding wonder and joy in observing reality, and to relearn to want to do something common, to find the children that we are, then aware of our specificities and the richness of putting them together to get the best out of them.
In any case, if it is possible that a few people, even a handful, find a little comfort in it, it will already be a great success, but I hope that it can have a certain echo and can touch and be brought to the ears of all those who might need it.
Let love come.
Émancipés du vide? is out now; check it out on Bandcamp. For more about M’Z visit this location.
